This is the episode transcribed. This is the episode transcribed.

This is the episode transcribed. This is the episode transcribed.

This is the episode transcribed. This is the episode transcribed.

Hey, everyone. It's editing Janilee here wanted to hop in and let you know that this is going to be a two part-er episode. In the end of our previous episode on identifying emotions, we were talking about one way that we can do that is to identify emotions in art form. And Larissa and I workshopped a couple ideas on how we might explore that deeper for you guys, and we came up with this, where we're going to go through an art form and identify emotions and discuss it with each other. So this is going to be a two part episode. It's going to be a longer first episode and a shorter second episode. At the end of the second episode that will be released later this week, there's going to be some additional behind the scenes stuff talking about different, smaller stories of art forms that we've used, so stay tuned for that. But in the meantime, let's jump into the episode.  

Welcome, friends. You found Just Janilee at the corner of “Am I crazy?” and “No, I'm not, here's the science to prove it.” But this week, we have a special guest, it's Larissa!!  Oh, man. So this is the Just Janilee episodes coming out after we talk about how we see ourselves in art form. And I was thinking, okay, so the Just Janilee episodes, they just are like a deeper dive into those topics. So what I decided to do is take one of my favorite musicals. Yes, I'm a fan of musicals, big time. Don't even get me started on it. And my dog is to because he hears me sing all the time, and I'm sure he loves it and isn't annoyed by it at all, as are my neighbors. It's great everyone loves musicals, but I wanted to have Larissa with us this week because she does not know the story of this musical. This is one of my favorite musicals, and I just want her to have her here so that she can react and so that you can kind of see both how I really love the art form, but also how sharing my love of the art form can show up in Larissa. I'm excited to hear about this. Yay. Okay, so this is the musical called Next, Normal and Larissa. If I'm understanding correctly, you don't know hardly anything about it, except for a few things I've told.  I know normal is a setting on a dryer.  Okay, so Larissa knows nothing.  Okay. So I'm just going to go through the plot of the musical, and there's a bunch of things that I really like about it, but I'm going to try and stick mainly to the story for this episode. There's an entire separate conversation I can have about the music and how it handles the transition between major and minor chords and all of the emotional implications of that. I can talk about that stuff for hours, but we're going to stick to the story this time so that Larissa can follow along. That's not a diss on Larissa. It's just I know a lot about music. No, I'm excited to learn about this, and I'd love to learn about the music of it, too, and just how musical chords change the way people feel and sense. I love learning about that stuff, but I would get lost and confused otherwise, so thank you. Maybe we'll have to do a Patreon thing with that aspect of it. That sounds fun. That sounds awesome. Okay, so Next to Normal, I'm not going to explain the title until the song that's called Maybe in parentheses, next to Normal,  this is one of those musicals where 90% of the play is just songs. So you go from song to song, and every once in a while, you have a couple of lines of dialogue in between the song. So the first song is called Just Another Day. Okay. And you have a mom, and she's waiting up, and her teenage son, he's, like, 17. He comes home, and she's like, what have you been doing? And he's like nothing. And she's like, yeah, right. I don't believe you. So the mom starts singing the song. It's like, 330 in the morning. And she's like, I was imagining what it might have been like if you had died, and  what if there's, like, a gang war or if you'd gotten the bird flu? I mean, I've been like, what happened? Why are you home so late? Right? Like, these super normal mother emotions. And so finally, the mom's like, go to bed. And so then the dad comes in, is like, what's going on? And mom's like, nothing. It's fine. And then we get introduced to the daughter. And the daughter comes in, and mom's like, hey, how are you doing? And the daughter I'm going to start throwing in some names here. So the mom's name is Diana, and the daughter's name is Natalie. So Natalie comes in, is like, hey, mom, what's up?  The mom's like, hey, Natalie, how are you doing? And Natalie is like, I'm really stressed with school. I have a paper that's due like this, that Natalie is a piano player, so she has, like, a piano performance, and it's like, hey, mom, do you want to come? And mom's like.  Well, we'll see if we can put it on the calendar. And Natalie goes, mom, the calendar is on April from last year. And so the mom goes, oh, well, happy Easter.  That kind of exchange kind of lets you know, maybe something's a little off here. But also it's funny, right, so we aren't super depressed or anything. And then just to make it a perfect family situation, the mom is like, Natalie, you shouldn't stress as much. For instance, I'm going to go have sex with your dad. And Natalie goes thanks. I'm so glad. I know  that's a weird thing to tell your daughter, right? Right. The song keeps going, and then you have the son, whose name is Gabe, so Gabe and Natalie brother sister, they're singing along, right?  And it's like sometimes life is just hard. It's a feeling that doesn't really go away. Just like another day.  They keep singing,  trying to see if there's anything else important in the song to kind of catch on to. Basically, they're all just like, hey, it's just another day, right?  So that's like the introduction. And then we switch to a song called Everything Else, which is just Natalie, and she's sitting there playing Mozart at the piano. And I love the first couple of lines of the song, so I'm going to read them to you, okay? Because Mozart was crazy, flat, fucking crazy. Batshit, I hear. But his music is not crazy. It's balanced, it's nimble, it's crystalline, clear. And when I first heard those lines, me being who I am, I'm like, that's so true. She goes on in the song to be like, you don't hear his debt and disease and his craziness. It's just the music. And everything else just goes away. And I just focus on the music, right? Which is how I feel when I play the piano often. And so she starts to get really anxious, and then the song kind of builds up, and she's basically like, I'm just going to graduate early. I'm going to be gone, and there's nothing that my paranoid parents can say about it. I'm just going to get out of here. So, you know that something's up. Natalie's not feeling that great, right?  And so this boy walks in named Henry, and Henry's like, you play the piano cool. And Natalie's like, you're crazy and everything. And I think Henry is like, you're kind of a confusing person. And Natalie goes, you should meet my mother.  And so we move on to different situation.  It's a song that's called Who's Crazy/My Psychopharmacologist and I. So this is where we learn that maybe the family is not entirely like this picturesque suburban family, but it goes through. And you have this doctor who is Dr. Fine and he's fine or she's fine. Get it? Doctor fine. I'm really funny. So you have Dr. Fine and he's coming in and he says a whole bunch of like, the pink ones are taken with food, but not the white ones. The white ones are taken with the round yellow ones, but not the triangle yellow ones. Triangle yellow ones are taken with the oblong green ones with food, but not with the pink ones. If a train is leaving New York at 120 miles an hour and another train is leaving St. Petersburg at the same time but going backwards, which train?  It builds on how absolutely crazy it can be when you have these medications and you have to take them at just the right time. And there's another point in the song when he's like, you get out your mortar and your pestle. You don't actually do that nowadays, but building on just how crazy it is to have all of these medications, right? Oh, no. I mean, that is exactly how a nurse feels when trying to administer meds. Yeah, right.  This song goes feel free to speak up more, by the way. It's a lot more like a just Janilee episode, but you seem very engaged, so I'm just going to keep going. So the song keeps going forward.  And the husband, his name is Dan. So Dan's out in the car. He's like, who's crazy, the one who can't cope or the one who waits in a car? And it's kind of like this interesting kind of question, right?  You genuinely start thinking, like, who's crazy, the husband or the wife, right? Who's crazy to live their whole life believing that some healthy aren't as bizarre as they are? Right? And so he talks about how he remembers what his wife was like, what Diana was like when they got married. She was 25 and she was young and alive. But now I think I would settle for someone who can drive.  And it's such a poignant question that it's just swept away because it's the beginning of the song. And then we go into how Diana views her relationship with her psychopharmacologist. But I think that's an interesting question. Just kind of throw at the beginning, like, who is the crazy one? The one who sticks around, or the one who needs medication? Well,  Larissa's nodding her head. Yeah, sorry. I'm over here. Like, really? Okay, what happens next? And I'm nodding my head as if people can hear the marbles in my head rattle. I mean, that's a really good question. And I posed something very similar to a therapist. I was like,  the definition of insanity is doing the same thing twice and expecting a different result. I'm doing the same thing 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th time hoping for a different result because I can't back down in this. So am I the problem? Am I the crazy one here? Right? And so it's a really good question to pose it that way. And  our podcast is geared mostly towards people who have gone through stuff, but also trying to make it accessible to people who just have those that they care about, who have gone through some hard things. And so you do start to think, like,  I have been crazy by, you know, like.  Weird definitions of crazy, right? But I've definitely been in a very mentally unstable place before. But was I the crazy one or was my friend who didn't give up on me and pulled me out of the situation? Were they the crazy one? Both of those things defy logic, right? Exactly. Such fun things to think about. Don't worry, it gets better. So we keep going through the song, and Diana starts singing, like, my psychopharmacologist and I right? She's like, It's an odd romance.  It's intense and intimate, and he'll never hold me, but he'll always take my calls, right? Because that's what doctors do. And she goes on to he knows my every secret, and I know his name.  Just really kind of bringing to light when you have and we've talked about therapy, and I feel like well trained therapists are aware of this, but there is this certain attachment you can have to your therapist because they're the first person that's cared to try and help you and have any sort of amount of success. So we keep going through the song and throughout the song. It's like a seven week journey, and there's different rounds of medication. And so we have, like, okay, so the first round of medication is over. How are you feeling? And she's like, I have less anxiety, but I have headaches and blurry vision, and I can't feel my toes. And the doctor is like, that's okay. We'll try again, and we'll come back at this. And then we kind of have these voices that are in her head. They're really fun. And so they have, like, zoloft and Paxil and Buspar and Xanax. And they start listing, like, all of these medications. And it's my favorite. The names of the characters in her head? No, that's what the voices in her head say. So it's like Zoloft and Paxil and Buspar and Xanax. Depot, Clonapin, Ambie and prozac. Adeven calls me when I see the pills. These are a few of my favorite pills.  Of kind of bringing in some Sound of Music reference there.  And then they start going during the song, we flash back over to kind of how Natalie is doing with Henry. Remember Henry's, that guy who walked in on her while she was practicing? And Henry basically saying, hey,  you might like jazz? And she's like, Are you kidding me? Jazz has no structure. Remember, like, Mozart, this very structured thing that she can cling to? And he's like, okay,  but jazz is like, it could be like creation, like an act of creation. And she's like,  you're like one of those pretentious stoner types, is the phrase that she uses because he does smoke marijuana. And he's like, that's not fair. I'm not pretentious. I am definitely not classical, though. That's too rigid and structured. And so you kind of have these two people where it's like, you have Natalie, who thrives on the structure, and Henry, who's just, like, go with the flow kind of thing, right? So they're trying to work out their relationship, and then the song bounces back to this doctor. And I like the comparison. That's something that happens a lot throughout this musical is kind of like this dichotomy of the mother's experience and the daughter's experience, right? So you have the doctor in the mother's situation who's very structured and very like, here's your medication. And okay, so here are the side effects, and we'll try and change it. And you have Diana, who's just like, we have this romance that's going on, right? And so you have structure and chaos in the daughter, in Natalie and Henry, but also in Diana and her doctor. So I love the contrast there. It's really fun. So then we get to another state in another couple of weeks have passed, right? And so the doctor is like, how are your side effects? She's like, Well, I can't feel my fingers or toes. I sweat profusely, and I've gained six pounds, which is really not fair. And the doctor is like, okay, well, we'll adjust it again. And it keeps kind of bouncing back between these two. And then, as if you've almost forgotten, Dan, the father of the family out in the car, is like, who's crazy? Posing this question again, like the one who is half gone? Or maybe is it the one who holds on, the one who sees doctors or the one who just sits in the car? So thinking about.  Who's the crazy one in this? And at the same time, you have, like, the structure and the chaos with the mother and the daughter in their separate situations. Like, I don't know, like, it's just this is like, it's a fun show with the story plot, like, on the surface level, but when you kind of dive deeper, it just gets more complex and it's just a lot more fascinating. I love the idea of who's more messed up, for lack of a better term. The one needing the meds or the one enabling the situation is almost the question, it sounds like. Yeah. So is it the codependent person that's holding on and sitting in the car waiting for I'm assuming it's an hour long psychotherapy appointment or the one who is sitting in the psychotherapy appointment multiple times changing medicine over and over and over and over again? Yeah. And it's just very interesting. Yeah. Because, I mean, that is completely that's why they have Alanon and Alcoholics Anonymous or very similar things for different types of or Narcotics Anonymous. Yeah. So I love it. And it keeps going. There's like another one where the voices in her head are now saying, here are all of the side effects, like headache and nausea and cramping and diarrhea and all of these things. And then they just kind of, like, stop really suddenly. And the doctor says, oh, one more thing. Use may be fatal.  The husband says, Use may be fatal. And so it's just kind of like a couple of people are like, Use may be fatal. Just kind of like reminding you, yeah, we're messing with medications, we're messing with a person's head. Right? Yeah. So you have another situation. She comes back and she's like, well, I have absolutely no sexual desire, but whether that's the marriage or the medication is anyone's guess. And the doctor goes, oh, I'm sure it's the medication. And Diana goes, oh, that's so sweet, but my husband's waiting in the car.  You just kind of like, stop because it's funny. But then if you think about it for 2 seconds, you're like, that doesn't make sense. If the doctor had said it was the marriage, that would have made sense for her to say that. Right? Yeah. And so you start to get the sense that we had earlier in the last song that something's just a little bit off, right? Yeah. Anyway. So then we have same thing. The song kind of ends with this, though, and this is the part that is a sucker punch the first time you hear it, because you're listening to the song, you have the chaos, you have the structure, you have the who's crazy everything. And then at the very end of the song, it's like, Goodman Diana, here's the patient and everything, seven weeks. And Diana goes, I don't feel like myself. I mean, I don't feel anything. And the doctor goes, Patient stable.  And then the song ends on this minor chord. That sounds really cool. I mean, this is a musical that came out in the early two thousand s and that is very much how mental health was viewed. Right. It's like you don't feel anything. You're completely numb. Perfect. You're stable. As if being stable was this pinnacle of what you want to like, what you should strive to be in life. Yeah. The emotionless automaton that they're trying to numb you into so that you just move through life without any of the pain instead of fixing the pain. Yeah. Okay. And then we have this miniature little scene. So Natalie and Henry, I kept hanging out, obviously, so he offers her to have some of his marijuana and whereas she has this line that's like, I don't put anything into my mouth that's on fire. And Henry goes, that's a good rule. And so she's like, you are just like.  You're crazy and you're loose and everything, and you have no structure, but I need this structure, and anything that's going to stop me from the structure is no, it's not going to happen. And so he doesn't pressure her. He just offers. She says no, and he's like, okay. And then he's like, they have this song together called Perfect for you where Henry's like, hey, I like you. And she's like, you shouldn't, like, know. She has a line right before the song that's like, I'm one fuck up away from disaster. And  it's so interesting for her to she obviously enjoys spending time with him. Right. Right. Because she's been doing it for seven weeks. And there's something about his less structured approach to life that she's craving, but she's not willing to have a relationship with him. Right. Because for fear. Yeah. I mean, like, giving up that loss of control. No, that's terrifying. Right. And so he's basically henry has this, like, I could be perfect for you. He's like, I might be lazy, loner, a bit of a stoner, it's true. But I could be perfect for. So she basically is just like, no, not going to work. And the whole song, it's really fun. They just go back and forth. But the song ends with them kissing, and finally they're like, they're dating. Right, right. And then when they kiss at the end of the song, like, you realize that they're on Natalie's front porch. You have Gabe, the son, and Diana, the mom, and Gabe's like, are you spying on your own daughter? And Diana's like, when did she get a boyfriend? Like, how did miss this happening? Gabe is like, well, you miss a lot of things. Like when you're super numb, you don't really get to participate in life. Well, it's like the calendars back on April. Yeah. So when Diana is watching her daughter out on the porch, she actually has kind of like a little flashback to when she was younger and when her husband, Dan is like, marrying me, like, let's get married. And so you can tell that Diana is seeing her in her daughter, at least in terms of the relationship that they're having with Henry or with Dan. Diana after kind of like having this moment where she's seeing her daughter and she remembers herself. She has this really hauntingly, beautiful song, and it's called I Miss the Mountains. She sings, like a couple of stanzas, and she slowly as she sings, I'm just going to read a couple of lines here and there. It's such a good song, but she goes, like, there was a time when I flew higher, when I would be running free, when I felt like my soul was on fire. But now I have all of these blank and tranquil years and they've dried up like my tears. So it's just like, I don't even cry anymore. But I miss the mountains, I miss the heights.  I love these two lines here. All the manic magic days and the dark, depressing nights. Because the first thing, like, what started this? Right? Right. Remembering her own romance and her own proposal. But all of a sudden, she's not just missing the good times, she's missing the dark, depressing nights, too. She's missing both. So then she goes to the medicine cabinet and starts to take out a whole bunch of pill bottles and keep singing. I miss the mountains. I miss the highs, the lows, the climbing, the falling. I miss the snow and the rain. Just experiencing life. She just wants to experience anything, any emotion. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. She wants to not be numb. Okay. Yeah, you get it. You get it.  So she starts opening the pill bottles and keeps singing. And like, mountains, they can make you crazy. And here it's just safe and sound and steady and consistent. And then she's like, well, everything is balanced here. Everything is like, on an even level. Like, I think the word is keel. Everything here is perfect. And then there's like this pause in the song. She goes, but nothing's real.  Nothing's. Nothing's real. It's perfect. It's structured. It's this, like it's balanced. It's like, oh, you're numb. Like, you don't feel anything. Patient stable. It's steady, but it's not real. And so she starts pouring her medication down the toilet, and she's like, I miss the mountains. I miss the lonely climb. I miss wander just wandering through the wilderness.  You just have all of this time, and you're just experiencing everything. And she ends it with, I miss the mountains. I miss my life. And so you have this entire song where she's just like, I miss the happy times, but I also miss the bad times. I miss the highs and the lows, and everything there is crazy. Everything here is perfect, but nothing here is real. And it's just like this arc of emotion throughout the entire song. And she ends with, like, I miss my life. And so she has all of the pills in the toilet, and we see Gabe walk in, and he's like, are you sure about this, Mom?  And she's like, do you think it's a bad idea? And he's like, I think it's a great idea. I think what you're doing is really brave. And she's like, well, what's your dad going to think? And he's like, Nothing if he doesn't know.  Right? But we have this situation where obviously why would she not want to tell her husband that she's flushing her medication? Because she's afraid of how her husband will react. Yeah, he's going to try and fix her again. He's going to try and get her back to this stable place anyway. She flushes the toilet, the meds go down, and then Dan, he basically is just, like, happy. Like, oh, his wife is stable and everything. And so he's like, for the first time in a while, he's like, everything's going to be good.  Little does he know. Yeah. Literally. The song is called it's going to be good. And so it's like, everything's going to be good. Go o d good. It's going to be good. It's been two weeks, and everything's working just the way that it is supposed to. Yeah. They finally found that happy space that they're trying to find with medications. They finally found that perfect spot. Sweet spot. I would say stable place. He found this sweet spot where things are finally fitting. They're finally this suburban family that's, like, perfect. It's been two weeks, the meds are working the way they should. Everything's stable. This is good news, right? Diana comes in, and you can start to see, like we did earlier, that something's just a little off, because she goes, hello? Oh, everything's great here. Like, I disinfected the entire house. I rewired the computer, I did some decoupage. I think I'm going to go retile the roof next. Something's a little off. Total manic state, right? Like her manic state of cleaning everything and retiling the roof, which probably isn't wise, right? And so then Dan starts singing again, like, it's going to be good, it's going to be good. Kind of a little differently than before because he's now trying to convince himself, right? And so he goes like, well, the sex is still amazing, and we don't stay up that late. She's happy as a clam. No, I look great. Like, everything's fine, right? So he's just, like, trying to convince himself it's slightly different. Yeah. Then this was one of my favorite parts. It makes me laugh every time I hear it. Natalie and Henry are on the porch again, and Dan opens the door. He's like, Henry, we've been waiting for you. I've heard so much about you. Come in and have dinner with us. And Natalie goes, you can't. And so Dan starts singing like, it's going to be good. And Natalie's like, dad, Henry's got to go. He has homework.  Surgery, rabies, anything. Just get him out of the house, right? Because, I mean, like, it's perfect. Like, no no teenage girl wants their parents to meet their boyfriend, right? Like, it's it's just like this such a normal thing, and it's like, my boyfriend has a dog's disease because, golly, I just don't want my dad to meet him. So they come in, they start sitting down to eat dinner and everything. Everyone's there. You have Dan, Diana, Natalie, Gabe, Henry, everyone. And all of a sudden, at the end of the song, diana walks in, and she's holding a birthday cake. Diana's like, all right. Like it's someone's birthday. And Henry's like, Whose birthday is it? And Natalie's like, all of a sudden, stonefaced. And she goes, It's my brother's. And Henry goes, I didn't know you had a brother. And she goes, I don't. He died before I was born. Yeah, exactly. Okay, sorry. Larissa takes a deep gasp that nobody else can see or hear,  right? Because you've been on her face, right? You've been seeing Gabe this entire time. And now, because we know that he's actually not alive, if you go back to the beginning and you watch the play through, he doesn't interact with anyone except Diana. She raised him in her mind from the he died when he was a baby, right? Because Natalie's, like, 16, and Gabe died before she was born. She's raised Gabe in her mind, and now he's a teenager. And so for 17 years or 16 years, she's just raised the son in her mind. And there's this really beautiful but sad song that Dan sings where he's like, honey, he's not here.  He's been dead for 16 years. I know that you know this.  Do you think he's here?  What's going on? Right, right. And so it's also interesting, because if you go back to when she's flushing her medications, she's having a conversation with herself, right,  with Gabe, with her figment of what this child is. Yeah. And this child's supports her. Right. And this child is like, yeah, whatever you want to do. And so for me, when I first heard this, I started to get a little bit of a bad vibe. But I don't think I like Gabe as a character because he helped her flush her medication, but at the same time, she wanted to feel things. So it's okay, I guess I've had conversations with people when they've stopped their meds, and they'll call me up and it's, oh, I stopped my meds three weeks ago. And I'm all, how's that doing for you? Because what else do you say? Yeah, I've stopped my meds and put people in really weird situations where they're just like, I don't know how to respond to this because I can tell that you're being manic again and everything. Right. And so it's just like I don't know, at this point, I'm not sure how I feel about Gabe, right? Yeah. I'm thinking Gabe might not be the most helpful person, right. But, like, okay, so they have this whole song, right? And Dan, he's like, after he's done singing, he's like, what happened to your meds? And she's like,  we have the happiest septic tank on the block.  I like that answer. Right? That's just, like, brilliant sassy. I love it. Yeah. And he's like, Come on, why? They were working. And she's like, no, they weren't. Really? And he's like, okay, we'll just get a new round. We'll call Dr. Fine again. And she's like, no. And he's like, Come on, I know that this is really hard. And she's like, you know, really? And so then there's a song called The You Don't Know, where she basically is describing. And this is a song that felt really true to me. Someone who's had depression for a while, but she's like, do you know what it's like to wake up in the morning and need help to lift your head up? Do you read obituaries and get jealous of dead people? Do you know what it's like to feel like you're dying alive? Do you know what it feels like to be standing on the edge of a cliff, not knowing when you're gonna fall or when you're gonna jump off? Like, do you do you really know what this feels like because you're sitting here like, oh, yeah, I know it's, like, really hard. You know, do you have do you have a world that once had color, but now it's just, like, black and white? Like it's gray scale? Like, do you do you know what that's like? You know when you have tomorrow and you don't want to go to tomorrow because it terrifies you, but you know that if you look backwards, you're going to die because it's going to drive you crazy?  You don't actually know what this is like, right? Yeah. And somebody who hasn't experienced that depression is never going to be able to fully know what another person who's had that suicidality has gone through. Well, and you start to kind of feel a little bit for Dan here, because he's really trying to help.  He liked that she was stable because he viewed it as progress. It's not like she said, hey, honey, let's sit down. I'm not feeling happy or sad, and I miss the mountains. No, she had the conversation with Gabe, and so he's doing what he thinks is best, and so he's kind of in this really hard situation. She's like, you don't know what it's like to feel like you're falling. You're never going to hit the ground. You feel like you're screaming, but no sound ever comes out. And life just keeps coming at you day by day by day by day. You don't know what it's like to live in that way. Right? Yeah. In that gray. Exactly. And so then we have Dan respond with his own song that's like, I Am the one. And so he's like, okay, tell me what you're afraid of. Tell me what is bothering you. And he's trying to help, but you can also kind of tell from the music of the song, but also the tone of his voice, that he's starting to get a little angry. He's starting to get a little upset with how long this has taken. Right. I mean, it's 17 years of this. I'd be tired of it, too, right? And so he's like, okay, tell me what you're afraid of. And also, can you tell me why I'm afraid that it's me? Why am I worried that what you actually are scared of is me?  I'm trying so hard to be the good person here.  I'm somehow the bad guy in your life. Right. He's the villain to her, right? Because she was scared to tell him that she flushed her meds or she didn't want to. So he's like, why have I been holding on for so long? He's like.  We've been fine for so long now how could something go wrong that I can't see? I thought we were connected, right? What's happening? It reminds me, though, of his song, when he's like, everything is good when she comes in is like, I'm going to retile the roof. And he's like, no, everything's fine. Maybe that's part of the reason why he's just sticking his head in the sand. Exactly. Where he's just like, no, everything's fine. He dismissed his warning signs because he doesn't want to experience them again. And, I mean, can we really fault him for that? No, I mean, he's protecting his own mentality, if that makes any sense. It does. That's exactly what he's doing, and he's protecting his own reality and people do it. I love all of this, too, because if you're really paying attention to the plot and everything, you can't get mad at one person,  except maybe Gabe at this point for me in the play, right. But I'm just like, it makes sense, right? Both of their perspectives are making sense here. And so then he kind of keeps singing, and he's like, I'm the one who knows you I'm the one who cares about you I'm the one that's always been here I'm the one who has always helped you and if you think that I don't give a damn, then you don't know who I am, right? So he's like, I have been here for so long, and then we have this really fun situation here that doesn't really fully make sense till the end of the play. Spoilers. But all of a sudden, Gabe shows up and he starts singing with the dad. So they're both singing at the same time, right? So Dan is singing like, how could you leave me? Dan is singing to Diana, to his wife. How could you leave me? Will you watch as I drown and just wonder why it happened? Are you bleeding? Are you bruised? Are you broken? And at the same time we have Gabe who's singing. Hi, dad, it's me why can't you see?  I wonder why are you waiting? Are you wishing are you wanting for her to give you something that she can't give? Are you hurting, are you healing? Are you hoping for an actual life to live? Right? And so it's just really fun kind of how they sing and bounce off of each other here. And so then we have the end of the song when all of them sing together. So we have Diana singing you don't know what it's like. We have Dan singing like I have been here. Well, Dan and Gabe are singing the same lines, and it's interesting. And I like that these lyrics apply because  I'm the one who knows you I'm the one who cares I'm the one who's always been here. Dan is singing that to Diana. But doesn't it also apply to Gay? It does. Gabe's always been there. We know that he's been raised in Diana's head. Right. And so it's fun that they're singing the same lines, and Diana's just like it's a beautiful piece of work. It's such a good song. Like, musically, the way the melodies fit together, it's awesome.  So so when when Diana walked in with a birthday cake, natalie and Henry went up to Natalie's room. So when Natalie's just getting really frustrated, she's like, you know, when she gets like this, like, she's useless. She can't use the phone, she can't drive. You know, she's everything like this. And Henry, he's like, I bet she has some really dope pills, though. And Natalie's like, well, apparently they don't work.  Yeah, apparently they're in the septic system. Them. Henry's like, well, I'm old school.  All the preppies and the jocks are, like, raiding their parents medicine cabinets, but I'm old school because I just like the pot. I'm just here for the marijuana. And she's like, yeah, you're the MacGyver of pot. And so he offers her pot again, and he's like, do you want to take a hit? And she's like, do you promise that this will help? And he's like, no, of course it's not going to work. I can't promise that this is going to work. Yeah. Let me be completely honest, right? And I love both that he never pressures her to take it. I personally like that he has his line because he knows how to manage his life with marijuana. It's helpful. It's something that helps him. At the time, it was illegal everywhere in the country. So we know that he's willing to break a few rules, but at the same time, he has his own personal lines that he draws. He's like, I don't raid people's medicine cabinets, even though I'm sure your mom has some dope stuff. I stick with what I know and what benefits my life and something that I maintain control over. So even though we had this contrast at the beginning of Natalie and her structure versus Henry and his chaos, henry has his own rules as well. They're just not as strict and as tight as Natalie's. Well, I think it's interesting because you can let the pot control you just like pills if you're not careful. And I think people delude themselves sometimes thinking that that's not the case when it is. Sorry. Tangent. No, it's true, too, because you also have Henry here, though, when Natalie's like, are you sure this will help? And he says no. I feel like he's showing us a level of self awareness that we haven't really seen from any other character in this play. None of the Goodman's, the family, the mom, dad, son, daughter, none of them are showing this level of self awareness of I don't know if pot is going to help you, but I mean, it helps me. You can try it if you want. Yeah. Anyway, Natalie looks away and she has this song called Superboy and the Invisible Girl. And it basically is like, Superboy is everything. He's a hero, he's a lover, he's a prince? He's everything that a kid ought to be. But he's not here. I'm here. Yeah. And she's just so frustrated.  She's like, I wish that I could just fly and disappear and fly really far away from here. And so then Diana actually opens up the door, and Henry hides the pot. Yeah. Diana doesn't notice, though. And so then Natalie starts singing this song to her mother, and she's like, superboy. And the invisible girl he's the one that you wish would appear he's your hero, he's forever your son but he's not here. I am here. Oh, yeah. Like this really deep word. Sorry. It's okay. You can cry. It's a really good play. No, it resonates so much with me. I've actually wanted so badly to say to certain individuals, stop grieving the kid that died and be there for the one that lived. I don't know if Diana's necessarily grieving, though. No, she's not. And neither are the people that I want to say that to, quite honestly. So it resonates so much with me, that concept of being that forgotten invisible child. I've written essays.  I find it interesting here because Diana has a little part of the song where she goes like, you know that's not true. You're our little pride enjoy. You're our perfect plan you actually find out later that Gabe was a surprise pregnancy, but Natalie was not. And so that's what she's referring to here. She's like, you were our perfect plan. We actually planned to have you. You know that I love you. I love you as much as I can. And then there's just, like, this pause in the music where, okay, we were, like, all against Diana because Natalie, she's making such a strong point. But then we also read realize that, well, Diana is loving her as much as she can with her circumstances. So dang it, who's the villain again?  There is no right side. There is no villain in this story.  They both have points of view that make sense.  There's, like, silence. So Diana leaves. And so the Natalie starts looking in a mirror and singing again. Like, take a look at the invisible girl. Here she is, clear as the day, but you have to look closely and quickly because she's going to fade away. And so then Gabe shows up, and he starts singing with her. Natalie doesn't acknowledge his presence there, but I like that he does show up and sing in the song because his death is huge. It's this massive impact. And so they both start singing like superboy. And the invisible girl, he's not there. He is not there. And that's like the end of the song where it's like, he's not he's gone, but she's not there. So you have at the beginning of the song where it's like, he's not here. And so then at the end of the song, it's, he's not here. So it's like, hey, mom, realize that I'm here. I'm alive. But then at the end of the song, it's like, you know what? I'm not here, because I'm the one that's actually alive, but the only one that you care about is my dead brother. Such a beautiful song. I love the journey that song takes. So then she sits down again next to Henry, just kind of like, she's not here. She's not here. And Henry offers her the pipe again, and she just finally is like, okay. And she just takes it. Yeah. And I mean, can we really blame her? No. If you're just feeling like you're completely not there, it doesn't matter. You know what you seem, Henry? You seem really loose. It doesn't seem like this pot is controlling your life. And you seem a lot happier than I've ever been, and yeah, I'll give it a shot. Maybe this can help. Me too. I'll try anything to stop feeling invisible. Yeah. And with the scenes shifts so now we're back with the doctor. Well, not with the doctor. We have Dan and Diana, and they're like, we'll find a new doctor since you didn't like Dr. Fine. And so Dan mentions like, there's someone out there for you in the depression chat rooms. They'll say it's like dating. You have to keep going until you find the right match, which something that Larissa and I talked about in episode seven with therapy. Like, yeah, it is like that. You have to keep going till you find the right doctor that matches for you. Yeah, but Diana's, like, they have depression chat rooms, and he's like, well, this doctor is supposed to be fantastic. He's a real rock star. Three different women at work gave me his name. And Diana's like, three different people at your job think that I'm nuts.  We kind of have this wait a minute, where Dan's not answering her questions. Which I find really interesting as well because if he's not being vulnerable with her how she's supposed to be vulnerable with him? Exactly, but we know that there's good intentions on both sides but she knows that he's going to people at his work, he's going to these depression chat rooms to talk about her and he's not talking to her. Yeah you kind of see this disconnect where they are not really working to very well but they both have good intentions but yeah it's frustrating because it's not like if you're watching a horror film, don't open the door. That's what you do to not be murdered don't go down to the basement, it's easy, it's simple but in this place  I want to fix it, I want to be able to fix this world but I can't there's no solution here. Yeah, I love this play.  The solution doesn't actually fix anything. Yeah, I love how complex it is. But there's a YouTuber that reacts to things and he always goes like, hey, when there's a murder, everything is so much more interesting. It's just like it has my attention more. It's more like real life. It's like a running joke. And it's funny, but it is true that when you have situations that are really true to form like, if I were to stop telling you this. And we're to just end this episode right now. I mean, how many people listening? And Larissa, would you go look up to find out how it ends? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, because it's engaging, it draws you in. It's so relatable because it it's reflecting that real life. I just have to know how it ends. There's a quote that I keep remembering as we're talking about this, and it's from Anna Carriana. I don't remember who wrote it, but it's some famous thing. And it goes all happy families are alike. Every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way. And I mean, each family has dysfunction, and there's really no happy families out there. Every family has its dysfunction in some way, shape or form, but there's grades of it. No two families are going to have the same type function. All of it of dysfunction. Yeah, well, and even when it comes to related families, I have talked to some people about their similarities between their mom and my mom, but there's a difference where my mom crosses the line and goes too far. It doesn't mean that everything that she does is wrong, but at some point it becomes too much, and finding that line is hard. And often it can be subjective based on personal views of the world and belief systems. Exactly. There is no it's beautiful and a complex and wonderful thing to talk about. I like it. Anyway, back to the show. So Diana sees another doctor. This doctor is called Dr. Madden. And so throughout their entire meeting, because Dan earlier was like, yeah, this guy's like he's supposed to be fantastic, a real rock star. And so once she is in his office, there's like a chord of music, and he turns into a rock star with the guitar and the hair and everything. And so she spins around and it's like, what? And he's like, I just said welcome. And she's like, oh, okay. And this keeps happening throughout their conversations where she sits down, he's a rock star, and she jumps. So she's scared of this reputation. And I think there's also probably a little PTSD going on here of she doesn't want to be numb again. I mean, he's a rock star, he's fantastic, but that's terrifying, because maybe I won't have the strength to advocate for myself against him. I think part of it also is that she's afraid to have to let go of Gabe. Yeah. I mean, if you think about it that way, she lets this person who's been that solid rock in her life, if she lets that person go and that person's not there anymore, what does she have left? Okay, well, you're just a little too insightful. Sorry. No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. It's perfect. It's perfect. So it's the whole, hi, nice to meet you. Tell me about yourself and Diana's. Like.  You know, he's like, well, tell me about yourself. Like, it keeps happening, you know? He's like, let's get it on now, baby. And Diana's. Like what? And he's like, I said, let's get started. Are you nervous? He doesn't understand what's going on here. Basically, she starts telling her history, right? And she's like, Well, I was diagnosed with bipolar 16 years ago, I guess, but apparently bipolar didn't cover all of it. And and doctors like, well, sometimes what we do is just put names on, like, a collection of symptoms. It's, like, the best we can do. Maybe bipolar, sometimes you actually have schizophrenia or, like, depression, and Diana is, like, a little hurt. She's like, I don't have depression. My mom told me when I was a kid that I was really high spirited, and trust me, my mom would know because she was in the PTA and got banned from the PTA for being too high spirited. So I don't have depression.  It's this resistance. I do not accept that label. That label is not coming on me, right? And so Dr. Madden is trying to be gentle and kind, and it's like, well, sometimes there's, like, a predisposition to illness from family, so maybe we can talk about your family and everything. And he's like, well, sometimes you need, like, a triggering event for these mental illnesses to kind of come out. And she's like, you know what? I just never know what to say when I go over this. It's like every time I tell my story, it feels like I'm talking about a completely different person. And that, to me, is just like it's a massive level of dissociation. It's like, I'm not unconnected with my life. It's just here.  Like, I don't I don't even care anymore. Like, it's just someone else's story. It's just a list of facts. Like she ended the last with the last doctor. She was so numb and disconnected from everything that this time it's just like  so the doctor kind of responds with like, okay, well, tell me the last time that you were truly happy. And Diana just kind of freezes. And she's like silent. And Dr. Madden's like, was it when you got married? Can you answer this more? Trying to help her come up with an idea. Yeah. And she's like, well, I thought I was happy then. And so Dr. Madden's like, there's a difference. She's like, yeah, there's a difference. And I love this. Most people who think that they're happy just haven't thought about it enough. Most people who think they're happy are actually just stupid. And it's just like it's really harsh. Boom. But mic drop. It's kind of a mic drop moment where it's just like some people. And I think in this instance, she's talking specifically about Dan because Dan thinks he's so happy. He has this whole it's going to be good song, right? And she's like, he's just not thinking about his life enough. No, he's just avoiding it. He's just too out of touch with everything. He's been able to dissociate enough to not deal with the grief of the son, whereas instead of grieving at all, she's just pretended this kid has lived right? And they're both dissociated, but in different ways. She's dissociated to be numb and has refused to let go, whereas Dan has refused to acknowledge that he lost a child and has dissociated into pretending everything is perfect. They're both ways you can dissociate. At this point, though, I think it's interesting that you're bringing this up because then I would start asking the question, well, why isn't Dan in therapy? Why isn't Dan addressing these issues? Why is it that in this context, diana is the one who has the issues, but Dan is the normal one who's just waiting in the car and just is the one who has a crazy wife? He's the normal one. She's just the one who's crazy. And the only difference is sorry, didn't mean cut you off.  No, I think you're going to answer it, but I'm thinking because he's not acknowledging the crazy. I think it's just because his type of dissociation is a little more socially acceptable. Pretending everything's fine is way more socially acceptable than having hallucinations of a child who died 16 years ago. Right. Like, if you look at those two surface value, one of them seems crazy and one of them doesn't. When neither of them are really healthy. Exactly. When you understand mental illness, they're kind of the same. They're dealing with the same situation in two completely different ways. And it's so funny, because the same person that I want to yell at, stop grieving the child that died and be there for the one that lived, that person has told me, I will not cry. I will not tell anybody about this child. You do not have the right to mention this child because I don't want to have to live. It taking over control of the narrative. And I'm sitting there going, I don't want to lie. Yeah, you can't bring up this child because I don't want to be aware of this child's existence. And so that probably is happening here, where Dan's like, would you just stop imagining that our son is alive? Because I hate that I have to keep being reminded that I have a son who died. Exactly. It's so good. Okay. Which, unfortunately, that poor little girl, that second child is also a constant reminder of the child that died. Yeah. And they don't even realize it. Exactly. Dr. Madden right. He's an insightful therapist, and he goes, well, were you happy when your son was born? And she just is my son.  And then a Gabe appears in the background, and he's watching, right? Because we're talking about him again. And Dr. Madden is like, well, tell me about him. She's like about my son? And he's like, yeah. Why is he still around?  Why is he still in your this is a really good way to kind of approach the fact that you're having hallucinations with someone who died 16 years ago is to be like, okay, well, tell me about him. Where are they coming from? So Gabe start singing his song, the original Broadway cast, it's Aaron Tibet. And I know that probably means nothing to you, but he's just a really good singer. So he starts singing, and his song is called I'm Alive. It's so interesting because literally we've just proven up to this point that he's actually not alive. So why is he singing a song about being alive? Because he is in her mind. Yeah, the words are just amazing.  Okay, so I'm on the right track. You were totally on the right track. He goes, I am what you want me to be and I'm your worst fear you'll find it in me come closer come closer and so then we have Dr. Madden's questions. Kind of in the middle of the song, he's like, Where do you think your son comes from? And so then Gabe starts singing again. He's like, I am more than memory I am what might be I am mystery you know me so show me gabe starts walking in a circle around him. He's like, When I appear it's not so clear if I'm a simple spirit or I'm flesh and blood but I'm alive I'm so alive I feed on the fear that's behind your eyes I need you to need me so it's no surprise that I'm alive so alive I'm alive wow. Okay. And I feel like, for me, at this point, I start to really not like Gabe. I start to really start casting him, and it's like this villain, like, I feed on the fear behind your eyes I need you need me if you don't need me around then I stop existing there's a lot of stories like Jekyll and Hyde, right? Like, Jekyll's like, no, I need you to let me exist with the evil one. Whatever is like, you can't kill yourself because then I stop existing. I love the actual play because the original soundtrack is really awesome, but I like the play. If you ever have a chance to see the play, go see the play, because you have these conversations that happen in the middle of the song. So we have, like, Natalie and her dad like, four times a week, and that's a lot. And her dad's like, well, it's what the doctor recommended. And so Natalie is just like, this is never going to get better. And so Gabe keeps singing. Sorry. Gabe shows up and starts listening to him, and Natalie's like, he's just never going to go away. And dan's like I don't know. And so Natalie, with her sass, is like, this is one of those moments you could be a typical parent and just say yes. So dan's like. Yes. And Hazley goes, thanks. That's comforting. Like, super sarcastic. Pinned him into the corner. Yeah. And so then Gabe starts singing to them, I am flame and I am fire I am destruction, decay and desire I'll hurt you kind of how he is with these two individuals. He's hurting their lives by existing in Diana's mind and not existing in theirs. Yeah. I love it. This is such a good song. And so Dan goes, you know, Natalie, it's not all about your comfort. Sometimes it's about helping your mother. And Gabe is singing like, I am your wish, your dream come true but I am your darkest nightmare too and I feel like that line is specifically thrown at Dan. You had a child I was your wish I was your dream come true but now I'm your darkest nightmare natalie is just like, screw you, dad. Like, it's never about me. And so Gabe keeps singing, and though you made me you can't change me I'm the perfect stranger who knows you too well and it's like, this is getting really, like I don't know. This song gave me such creepy vibes, but it's so good. Well, so I wonder if it's also speaking to Natalie's fear of ending up like her mom, which is a fear that hasn't shown up yet, but it does. You're very good at this. I'm just thinking from the child in this situation, like me. Yeah.  You're going to love this one song in the second act. So Gabe is like, there's one line in his song that doesn't really fit with the others, and it's, I'll tell you the truth if you let me try and that one just kind of of hits weird, right? Because it's like I feed on the fear behind your eyes like I'm destruction, decay, desire you can't get rid of me you made me but you can't change me I am a stranger but I know you really well so I have all this power and then he's like.  I'll tell you the truth if you let me try. And so it's kind of like realizing that, yeah, he is still just a memory. He isn't actually real anyway. So what ends up happening there's Gabe singing I'm Alive over and over again. And what he does is he finds Natalie in the bathroom and she starts opening the medicine cabinet and starts taking her mom's pills. She takes Valium and Xanax, and she just shrugs and goes like, what the hell? And just handful of them. This is interesting because it's the same type of attitude she had when she tried pot for the first time. But this time she's alone, and this time, it's not something that she's doing with someone. This time, it's just the first time she took it is because maybe it was a little nice to relax, but this time it feels more like an avoidance technique. My dad literally just told me that sometimes it's not about you, it's about your mom. And so Natalie's like, fine, I'll just stop existing. I'm going to numb out. And this is a third way of dissociating. So now we have all three members of this family completely dissociating in three completely different ways. But it doesn't I don't know. It's beautiful, but none of it's healthy. It's all dissociation, but it's in three different there's no one way to be mentally ill. There's so many different ways you can exactly. Anyway, so Gabe keeps singing, and he kind of shows back up. So we're full circle back to the appointment where Diana is, and he goes, I'm alive, I'm right behind you. You say forget, but I will remind you? You can try to hide, but you know that I will find you. And then this is a line that you hit on earlier. Because if you won't grieve me, you won't leave me behind. And it's this diana hasn't grieved him, and she refuses to, because what happens when you grieve someone? And I know that you and I have touched on grieving people who are still alive. In order to grieve, in order to complete that cycle of grief, you have to hit acceptance. You have to accept that this person is not in your life anymore, whether alive or dead. There has to be this acceptance of it not only that this person existed and that this person was a part of you and impacted you in some way, shape or form, but that this person is no longer going to be able to you have to grieve all of that, and you have to grieve the fact that you allowed yourself to open up and then learn to open up again. And that's a part of grief that is so tough for so many people that opening yourself up again afterwards.  And I think that's what everybody in this family is struggling with. I think it's not everyone, but I love that you brought that up, because I think it's interesting that you mentioned that grieving includes that acceptance of being willing to open up again. Because I feel like Dan has accepted that his son died, but he never went through the first fort. Like, he didn't grieve him or anything. He just was like, my son died, accepted, moved on without ever having the emotional process of it. And so now  he can't move on from it because he didn't do the first part of grieving. And Diana can't move on because she hasn't done the acceptance part of grieving. Right. And Natalie can't move on because I feel like stuck in that anger that her brother existed. Right. It's not necessarily like she's angry at him for existing because of how it impacts her life. And so you have everyone stuck in these different stages of grief, none of them actually moving forward, and all of them dissociating in unhealthy ways, and not a one of them is right or wrong. Not a one of them is the good guy or the bad guy. They're all just complex, individual humans in a very messed up situation. Exactly. And it's so tough in that situation because you want to make someone the villain. You want to blame Gabe for existing and for sticking around and playing that tricky little game that he's playing with mom. But at the same time, you want to blame mom for having this illness, but you can't do that. And you can't blame dad for not helping mom figure this out and not realizing that dad needs just as much help. And, yeah,  it's a very tough situation. So the song ends, and Dr. Madden is like, let's say he's 18 now. Isn't that when kids move out? Isn't that like when, like, shouldn't you start letting him go? And, you know, Diana doesn't respond.  You. And so Dr. Madden is like, it's been four weeks now and I'd like to try something new. Sometimes these stories are hard hypnosis. Hypnosis can be helpful. And so you have this doctor who's tried this one type of therapy and it's like, you know what, let's try a different type of therapy. I genuinely feel like Dr. Madden is doing their best and doing every everything they can in this situation. And so Diana is like, oh, I don't think I could be hypnotized. I mean, you can try, but it's just not going to work on me, right? And he's like, okay, so what he ends up doing, it's not necessarily called hypnotizing nowadays. It's more like a grounding exercise is what I've had it referred to. But he's basically just like, put your feet on the floor, put your hands in your lap, take a breath and breathe. Right? And so then if you're following along with the actual soundtrack, we're onto the song called Make Up Your Mind, catch Me I'm Falling.  So you have Dr. Madden. He's like, walk with me. Let's visualize that we're going down a hall. Like, we're going down a long flight of stairs, and then there's a hall, and then there's this door.  And so then he asks her like, okay, can you still hear me? And she's like, yes. He's like, are you scared? And she's like, no, I'm not. And so this is an interesting thing as well, because like mentioned in the Just Janley episode with EMDR, the most important thing is feeling safe is not being scared. Healing is never going to happen in the same environments that cause the pain. Healing is never going to happen if you're scared or if you're nervous or if you're upset. Like, we did this grounding exercise. You walked down a hall, you opened a door. Now we're going to be in a room, and I'm going to give you ways to maybe view the situation.  But if you're scared, none of it's going to work so good, doctor.  And so he sings. He's like, make up your mind to explore yourself make up your mind that you have stories to tell. We'll search in your past for what sorrows can last. But then you have to make up your mind to be well and so he's like, we'll deal with the stuff that's in the past, but you have to have something worth living for is essentially how I take that, right? You have to  make up your mind is kind of his phrase, where he's just like, you get to decide you're going to explore yourself. You have stories to tell that aren't about your son.  And time is passing during the song as well. And Dan's like, Diana, you come home from these visits and you're in tears. Are they actually helping?  We're back into the session, and all of a sudden, Diana's being more open, and she's talking about things that she never talked about with that first doctor. With that doctor fine, right? She's like, we were both undergrads. We were in architecture. This is where we learned, like, the baby wasn't planned, so Gabe wasn't planned. Right? But neither was the marriage. I'd always expected to be too busy to have a baby, but then the baby came, and it all made sense until and then she stops talking. So it's that building up that narrative and that story behind the painful event, and now we're at that painful moment and the doctor's prompting until and we hear the song that happened. He's not here when the dad's like, when she brought out the birthday cake, so it's like, he's not here. And so we hear that melody again, and so Diana kind of is starting to shrivel and get scared again. And so Dr. Madden, he reminds her, you get to make up your mind that you're strong enough. You get to decide. Let the truth be revealed, admit what you've lost, live with the cost and at times it does hurt to be healed. So he's like, you're strong enough, you can keep going. And all of this and it's really beautiful lyrics to the song. So then Gabe shows up, right? And Gabe starts singing Catch Me, I'm Falling in between Dr. Madden talking and Dr. Madden's, like, in our first session, Catch Me, I'm Falling, you told me through your history we have Gabe singing, and he's basically like, you told me that you feel like you're talking about someone else. Then Gabe is, like, still singing, and Diana starts to sing with Gabe, right? It's that pole. It's that comfort of the devil that you know, right? The hell you know. She's like, I recognize this. I know how to cope by singing and following along with Gabe. And so Dr. Madden is like, make it about you, right? Stop making it about your son. Catch me, I'm falling for good and everything. So. 1 Natalie is at her piano concert. Henry's backstage. He's wishing her good luck, and she's like, did you see my parents out there? And  Henry is like, I didn't, but I'm sure they'll be here. And natalie's like, oh, yeah. Are you sure? And, I mean, can you blame her? No. And I just feel like with out at any point in this entire play, you can just say, can you blame them? And the answer is always no, because you get it. This play does such a good job of putting you in these situations and understanding things. It's fun that we have Natalie at her concert, right? Because then Diana, in therapy, starts talking about Natalie, and so she's like, we had Natalie, and I know that Natalie knows, but I couldn't hold her in the hospital because it was just too hard. And so then you have Natalie like, well, where the hell are they? And then Diana's talking about Natalie. I couldn't let myself hold her. And so you have, like, this it's almost like seeing the growth in Diana of I couldn't hold my daughter when she was born. And Dr. Madden even brings up that's the first time in two weeks of therapy that you've mentioned Natalie's name and realizing that Diana does care about Natalie, and she's slowly moving through things.  But it's not fast enough because Natalie is 16. Natalie has this event, and her parents don't show up. And so it's like, again, this contrast of, I'm starting to be able to accept that I need to be there for Natalie. I'm bringing her up in therapy. It's not all about Gabe, but it's not fast enough.  You missed it.  All of the other doctors, there was no progress. But you're finally making progress. But it's not fast enough. And you're missing these opportunities, and it's this heart wrenching. Because her parents don't show up, natalie ends up totally messing up. And so that happens during the end of the song, where you have Dr. Madden again. He's like, make up your mind that you want clarity. He's like, take what you know, make it make sense. Face your fear everything over time, like, it gets more clear. These visions are just your defense. So this seeing Gabe as an adult, it's just your body defending you. Right? And so this is the first time that some of Gabe's lines throughout his songs have been popping up, and they don't really fit with this I'm trying to control you kind of evil way. And this is kind of the first time that we realize necessarily why. Because Gabe, he's not trying to hurt, he's trying to help, but he also isn't an individual person. He is just a part of Diana's mind. And so you have Dr. Madden. He's like, the visions are just your defense. And it's almost like a line to us audience members, stop trying to make this guy the villain. There doesn't have to be a villain to have a good story, because this is an amazing story, and there's no villain.  Make up your mind make up your mind you have the power natalie messes up on her song, and she ends up saying, you know, what's wrong with some classical music? It's too rigid. And she does, like, this jazz stuff, which is not what she was supposed to do, and so it doesn't end very well. And so then you have all of the family, and I think that this is really so you have all of them singing at the same time, but then they all come together. And this is Diana, Dan, Gabe, and Natalie. So just the main four. And it's like, catch me, I'm falling.  And it's so interesting because they are all falling in their own ways, right? Diana's falling. It's the fall of the whole family. Yeah.  Yeah. You have Dan, who's just like, she's coming home. She's crying. Dan's not seeing this as, like, a good thing. Everything, it's just so intense. Natalie's falling at her recital. Diana's  experiencing this pain that she's been ignoring for so long, and so flying headfirst into fate. Catch me, I'm falling. Dr. Madden has this really great line. He's like, the more that you hold on to something that you've lost, the more you fear losing it. Yeah. And so they're all like, catch me before it's too late. And so, Dr. Maddens, wouldn't you like to be free from all of that, finally?  Don't you want to, like, you can go home, you can clear out his room, spend some time with your daughter, maybe let Gabe go finally, right? Yeah. So this song ends, right? And then they're home, and Dan's like, this is a good stuff, Diana, right? And so you have Diana, and she is going through Gabe's stuff. She has, like, a blanket, and then.  Pictures and everything. And she finally finds a music box. Okay, now, this music box, we don't know anything about it yet, but she starts singing along with it. And Gabe so, she's like the song is like I saw you light the ballroom with your sparkling eyes of blue graceful as an angel's wing I dreamed to dance with you and so  Gabe walks in. He's in this tuxio. He looks amazing.  You whispered slyly and softly you told me that you would be true we spun around thousand stars and I dreamed a dance with you and they start dancing, and it's just like it's not as antagonistic. It's more calm. This song is slower, and you have more of this connection between the two. Yeah. And so Gabe kisses her hand and steps away. And Diana, she starts to realize what it means to let go of Gabe. I'll wake alone tomorrow the dream of our dance is through I don't get a dream of this dance anymore. But now until forever I will live to dance with you and.  And so Gabe's turning to go, but on, like, the last line of the song, he turns back and she just stops singing. She's kind of quiet. And so then Gabe starts singing. And this is one of my favorite songs. It's like a minute long. But there's a world and so Gabe is singing there's a world that I know a place we can go where the pain will go away there's a world where the sun shines each day there's a world there's a world out there I'll show you just where and in time I know you'll see there's a world where we can be free come with me. And she's thinking of ending it. Yeah. And then all of a sudden so Gabe keeps singing, Come with me. And Dr. Madden starts saying words. He walks in with a hospital chart, and he goes goodman diana discovered unconscious at home. Gabe's still singing. There's a world where we can be free dr. Madden is like multiple razor wounds to wrists and forearms. Self inflicted. And, Gabe, come with me dr. Madden saline structures and gauze ivy antibiotics isolated sedated and restrained. Damn it. Gabe holds out his hand, right? And then Diana takes it and follows him off stage. And so you have, like, this  I don't know, you just sit with that for a second, and you're like, I get it.  And it's so hard because it came after such growth. But sometimes the growth is just too much, too fast. Painful. It is painful. And if we think about Diana, the only comfort that she has in her life is her son. It's this image of him that she's raised in her mind. She has a daughter who's dissociating. She has a husband who's dissociating. She does have anyone else. And she starts she has a tiny memory of something that she's lost, and she's ready to go.  So my dad's only whole brother committed suicide the year I was born. And my grandmother, my dad's mother spent the next eight years smoking and drinking herself to death because she could not get past past that death of that little boy. Well, it wasn't a little boy. I mean, he was a grown man. And she abandoned the grandkids, her husband, her son. And I mean, so I can take that and go, oh, my gosh, I see why my grandmother did this.  From this story. Well, and I love it, too, because it takes you inside the journey and it helps people who maybe never have suffered being suicidal before. And if you've listened, you know that Larissa and I both have. But it gives you a glimpse into that world and that situation that maybe you've never been in before. You've never understood why someone would even go that far. Yeah. Why someone would believe it. Yeah. And all of a sudden, you can realize and I love this song. It's beautiful and it's calm. I was listening to it, like, on repeat a couple of weeks ago. Just because it's beautiful. I'm not suicidal. It's fine. But that's the nice thing about this art, is it applies in all these situations. And even when you're really depressed, there's a world where the pain will go away. There is a world where all of this stops. A common quote with suicide is you don't want to end your life, you just want something in your life to stop. You just want the pain to stop. Yeah. Maybe you just want a world where the sun shines every day. A world where you can be free and. From everything, from the weights and the burdens of the world. No more sorrows, no more pain, just sunshine. No more rain. Yeah, we switch to so that's like Diana's perspective, and then we switch to Dan and the doctor having a conversation and Dr madden goes, ECT is indicated. And Dan's like, they still do that. For those who don't know, ECT T is like electroshock therapy. And so Dr. Madden's like, yeah, we do in cases like this. She's got a long history of drug therapy and resistance to that hasn't worked, right? She's acutely suicidal. We just had to bring her into a hospital to save her life. It's really our best option. And I love that Dr. Madden didn't just jump to this, right? He tried hypnosis, he tried all of these different methods of helping her and then this is kind of the only option that we have left. And dan's. Like that's terrifying. And Dr madden being a calm doctor is like, the electricity involved is barely enough to light a 100 watt bulb. And Dan's like, oh, well, if it's only 100 watt bulb, now we know where Natalie gets her Sass, right? And Dr madden's like, it's safer than crossing the street. And the short term success is over 80%. And Dan's just like, this is, I feel like, a very interesting moment where Dan's reality is just  he can't pretend anymore. He accepted his son's death and thought everything was fine, and now he's looking at his wife who attempted suicide. This is where your reality comes crashing into you and your disassociation fails. Yeah. Because eventually it does. Yeah. I thought she was getting better. Dr madden's like, some patients recover just enough strength to follow through on suicidal impulses, but not enough strength to resist them, which is exactly what we were just talking about, and it's super true. And that's where having a community and people who care about you really helps. And Dan goes, well, that seems very fucked. And Dr Madden is like, yeah, kind of, but legally, we need to have her consent for this ECT as well. And Dan's like, I don't really think she's going to go for this.  He's having this argument with the doctor and doctor is like, look, we can administer the ECT, you can bring her home in ten days, or we can keep her sedated for 48 hours, discharge her and wait for her to try again. These are your two options, everything you've been doing up to this point or something new, and so go home, take the night, think about it.  And so then there's this song of Dan. It's called I've been and so he's just like, I've tried to help her, and I don't know how. I like this line. He goes, all the times that I've been told the way her illness goes but the truth of it is no one really knows. Yeah, and it's true.  Everyone is so different, and all of these things that I've tried, they don't work. And so day this act that we do, it just gets more and more crazy. It gets more and more absurd, and all my fears just sit inside me screaming to be heard and I know they won't, though. Not a single word. And so we're starting to realize that Dan is aware that he has some stuff he's repressing. Right. And his reality came crashing down. He's starting to be like, okay, well, all right, I guess I got to figure this out now. It's this beautiful kind of like  does he let himself feel those emotions? He's like, but I know they won't. Why? Because his responsibility to his wife is going to be what he uses as an excuse to keep all of that repressed. Right? Yeah.  So Dan starts to clean up after Diana at the house, and Gabe's watching him, which I think is an interesting thing, and he goes dan is singing like, I was here I was at her side when she called, when she cried, kind of like the song earlier. I have always been here I have always been here and so how could she be not selfish, but how could she leave me alone? She was willing to leave me here alone and so then he's like, okay, well, will this work? Well, there's a cure. Is it a cure? He's like, there's no way to be sure but I'm weary to the bone and whenever she goes flying I keep my feet on the ground and now I need a little lift and there's no one around again, this whole who is he supposed to turn to? His wife in the hospital bed? His daughter, who's completely dissociated? So then Gabe starts singing with Dan. And every time Gabe sings with anyone else, I always love the words because they have a double meaning. Right? This can be something Gabe is saying, and it can also be something Dan is saying.  It's. I've never had to face the world without her at my side so Gabe and Dan sing together, but it's not like words. It's just humming. Then this is just Dan singing again. To be clear, I've never had to face the world without her. I'm strolling sorry, this line is just hard now. I'm strolling right beside her and the black hole opens wide mine is just a slower suicide, and it's the truth. Yeah, it's kind of like you said with your grandma, it's just going to take eight years, but it's just a slower suicide. So it's this idea of and I love you have, like, Diana, and she's the crazy one, the one that's going to the doctor, one that's taking the meds, and the one that, on the surface, looks absolutely bonkers, but he's kind of realizing, I'm going through the same thing as mine's, just slower and more socially acceptable. Yeah. Mine's accepted, hers isn't. But at the same time, man, is this falling apart in tandem? Yeah. You just don't see anybody actually being healthy. Yeah. And so he's like, I've been here for every high, every low, and this is the worst situation that we've ever known. So Natalie walks in, and she's like, dad, why didn't you take me with you to take mom to hospital? And Dan's like, we don't see a lot of you these days. Is Henry a good influence? And Natalie is like, compared to what?  You don't influence me? And so Dan's like, okay, but I also think it's interesting he didn't answer the question because he can't. Why didn't you take me with you? Well, you're not around, so it's like, maybe because if you all got together and faced the grief together.  You know, but no, we're gonna we're, they're all three of them are so insistent that they're gonna face all of this alone, but then Dr. Madden is like, the after effects are minimal. You'll feel a little bit like you have a hangover. And Gabe is like, mom, don't let them do this, it causes brain damage. Dan, who is finally telling Natalie, what's going on? Your mom's in for new treatment, ECT. And Natalie goes, okay, elementop, what is that? I don't know. And he's like, It's electroconvulsive therapy, shock therapy. And Natalie is like, you are kidding me, right? That's bullshit. No. So we have Natalie, who's completely against it. We have Gabe, who's completely against it. You have Dr. Madden saying, a minority of patients report some memory loss, but it's usually not much memory. And Gabe is like, well, how do you know how much memory you've lost if you've lost it?  Good question. Right? Basically, Natalie is like, no, this is bullshit. And her dad's just like, Language. And she's like, no, dad, she trusts you. And she does. Then we have this song called didn't I see this movie? And what I find interesting with all of this is what was Dan's original reaction with his treatment? No, that's crazy. And then he had some thinking and he changed his mind. And it's almost like he's just sure that Natalie is going to change her mind and come around on it, right? And so you have this song where Diana is told about the ECT, and she goes, well, didn't I see this movie? The hospital was heavy, but the cuckoo's nest is worse isn't this the one where in the end the good guys fry? I saw this movie and I walked out I'm not a sociopath  so stay out of my brain. Right? What makes you think I'd lose my mind for you? And so it's a whole song, that's basically what everyone's been thinking of. Hell no. Stay out of my brain. Like, no. Yeah. And so this song ends with her just being like, I'm walking out, I'm walking out. And then there's just a moment and Dan comes in and he starts kind of calming her down and saying, it's a song called A Light in the Dark. And. And basically, he walks her through the same kind of thing that he thought through one light. Basically, he has this image of a house, and there's one light. But why do I live there alone? Oh, because you're not there. And he kind of makes it where you're not there mentally, but you're also not there physically because you just tried to kill yourself. And so he's like, Take this chance because it may be our last to be free to let go of the past and to try to be husband and wife, to let love never die, or to just live our life.  And they have a couple of lines where they sing together, but eventually she signs the form and says that she'll be that light in the dark. It is that last hope. Yeah, it is. It's an absolutely last hope where it's take this chance and we'll make a new start somewhere far from what keeps us apart. And I swear, somewhere in the night, there's a light. A light in the dark.  This is the last chance that we have. And it's interesting because in this scene, as she's signing the papers, gabe is there and he's watching. But for almost the first time in the entire show, diana doesn't acknowledge that he's there. She's staring at her husband. She's staring at Dan. She's staring at this hope of a future. That everything that Dr. Madden was saying, right? Like, have a life that you want to live. Don't make it all about your son. Make it about you. Right? It's just like this beautiful moment. I love it so much. It sounds amazing. Yeah. I'm, like, on the edge of my feet, as close to the camera as I can be without using Zits.  That is the end of Act One.  Oh, my goodness. Okay, well, maybe we need to do this in two parts. Yeah, most definitely. So  come come back and listen. Yeah. At least we're gonna be doing this again. It's such it's such a good if you haven't, like, if you just want to, like, listen to the music, it's so good.  This makes me so happy. But,  yeah, I think that's all I got to say. Come back and listen. It'll be great.  Yes. Stay tuned for part two.

This is the episode transcribed. This is the episode transcribed.

This is the episode transcribed. This is the episode transcribed.